Episode 04: Mastering Growth Mindset with Emotional Intelligence
In Episode 4, the Emotional Intelli-Gents podcast will be discussing just how significant having leaders with a ‘growth mindset’ is to the fate of an organization. We advance that argument further by explaining why a growth mindset in leaders alone will not secure success, but must be coupled with emotionally intelligent people and policies to maximize an organization's potential. The episode is broken into three parts. First, we will define key terms and concepts related to the ‘growth mindset’. Second, we explain the cross-section between emotional intelligence and the ‘growth mindset’ and why EQ skills are critical to maximizing the impact of your ‘growth mindset’. Lastly, we give some real practical tips our listeners can apply to develop a true ‘growth mindset’.
Part 1: Growth Mindset vs. Fixed Mindset
We'll start by discussing the difference between a growth mindset and a fixed mindset. A growth mindset is the belief that abilities and intelligence can be developed through hard work, dedication, and a willingness to learn. A fixed mindset, on the other hand, is the belief that abilities and intelligence are innate and cannot be changed. A person’s inherent nature, life experiences, and environment will play a role in whether they approach challenges with a fixed or growth mindset. Most people will find that their mindset is a coalescence of both a fixed and ‘growth mindset’.
Part 2: Emotional Intelligence and Growth Mindset
This part of the episode explores the cross-section between ‘growth mindset’ and emotional intelligence. Ismail and Sameer will dive deep into how a ‘growth mindset’ on its own is an essential ingredient to finding success, but the application of EQ skills to a growth mindset serves as an important catalyst. For example, leaders are typically adept at pushing teams and advancing progress by indiscriminately ascribing to a growth mindset. However, when leaders are marching toward their goals, they can often leave their teams feeling alienated and full of mistrust. If leaders can maintain a growth mindset while also employing key EQ skills such as self-awareness, empathy, openness, and kindness, they will likely reach their desired outcomes even quicker. By leveraging your emotions, you can better manage them and use them to support your teams and motivate.
Part 3: Tips and Tricks to Developing a Growth Mindset
Finally, we'll share some tips and tricks to help you develop a growth mindset.
Embrace challenges: Challenges are opportunities to learn and grow. A ‘growth mindset’ starts with embracing challenges instead of avoiding them.
Identify your mindset: Avoid focusing purely on the outcome. Focus instead on the journey and what you’ve gained along the way. Find value in incremental progress.
Draw from previous successes: when facing a seemingly insurmountable challenge, look at previous wins you’ve had, and find inspiration from those moments
Practice self-reflection: Take time to reflect on your experiences, what you've learned, and what you can do differently in the future.
Embrace the power of ‘yet’: Distinguish between truly not being able to overcome a challenge, and not being able to overcome a challenge ‘yet’. The power of ‘yet’ shifts one from a defeatist mindset to the mindset of someone striving through hard work and perseverance.
As always, we hope you found this episode informative and helpful. The ‘growth mindset’ is a powerful tool and exercising it in an emotionally intelligent way will surely maximize its overall impact during your leadership journey.
Episode 04 Transcript
Opener Teaser (00:00):
The majority of business objectives are met through teamwork. So if you have a growth mindset and you are willing to do whatever it takes to meet the goals of the business, but you aren't able to leverage EQ skills to bring the rest of the team with you, then your ultimate goals for your business will likely fail.
Intro Music (00:23):
1, 2, 3, 4.
Intro (00:23):
Welcome to the Emotional Intelligence Podcast, a podcast diving into how emotional intelligence can be unleashed to turn great people into great leaders. And now your hosts, Ismail and Sameer.
Ismail (00:38):
Hello and welcome again to the Emotional Intelligence Podcast, where we help current and aspiring leaders level up their ability to achieve greatness in the workplace. I'm Ismail.
Sameer (00:49):
And hey, everyone, I'm Sameer.
Ismail (00:50):
Alright, Sameer. So in today's episode, we're gonna be talking about a topic that, in my personal opinion, has really become a movement in its own right. And that concept or topic is gonna be a growth mindset.
Sameer (01:03):
Ah, yes. The growth mindset indeed <laugh> the cousin of emotional intelligence, and, and as you aptly put it, Ismail, uh, the movement related to growth mindset is definitely worth us taking some time to discuss today. And particularly I think the focus of our discussion today will be looking closely at the cross-section between the growth mindset and emotional intelligence.
Ismail (01:23):
That's right. So why don't we jump right on in.
Sameer (01:27):
All right. Let's do it.
Ismail (01:32):
So this concept, like the phrase growth mindset, it's really taken hold in the last decade or so, and I think one of the primary catalysts for that is for making growth mindset. Such a household term that we frequently hear is the school system, in my opinion. And they've really identified the importance of a growth mindset, and recently have placed a ton of importance on teaching that mindset to the students. And we're talking about as early as kindergarten.
Sameer (02:03):
You're right, and, you know, as a professional, I think you and I have both become familiar with the term growth mindset as it pertained to work or confronting various challenges at work. But, you know, when it really hit home for me as something that I need to be digging into more was actually when my daughter, she came home from school one day, and I think she was maybe in first grade, she asked me to make her some elaborate snack, and I said, no, I can't do that. And she said, daddy, you gotta have a growth mindset <laugh>. And I'm like, what? I gotta have a what? <laugh>. And so I remember thinking to my myself, you know, my daughter can't already know more than me about something <laugh>. So I went down the rabbit hole of Googling and researching about the growth mindset, and I found the topic actually really fascinating.
Sameer (02:51):
And so it was a Stanford University psych professor by the name of Carol Dweck, who coined the term growth mindset. And through her research, she discovered that students in, in this one particular study, they were 10th graders who demonstrated a growth mindset, significantly outscored their peers, who had a fixed mindset in math and reading. And that was regardless of their income levels. So Professor Dweck and her colleagues over, you know, several studies repeatedly saw that students that had a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset were scoring better. And this is why it's actually taken, uh, such a strong hold in schools. It's become a mantra for students across the nation at this point.
Ismail (03:35):
Really, I just wanna have a quick aside here, and this is totally my my own personal opinion, and by no means a plug or sponsor in any way, but if you haven't read Carol Dweck's book called Mindset, I really do recommend it. So, Sameer, you mentioned the term fixed mindset. And so what are some of the, the key distinctions between a fixed mindset and a growth mindset?
Sameer (04:00):
Sure. Okay. So a fixed mindset basically says that a person's abilities or talents, their overall intelligence, it believes that it's all predetermined. The fixed mindset says that it cannot be changed. So a person with a fixed mindset, they're gonna see themselves as having certain strengths and weaknesses, and then they firmly believe that this can't change, particularly that weaknesses cannot become strengths. So for these people with this fixed mindset, they're gonna be a lot more hesitant to take on new challenges or risks that may expose what they've determined as being limitations, let's say. So. And then if they do take on a challenge, they're much more likely to simply quit right? In the face of any kind of adversity.
Ismail (04:47):
Right. So would you say that a fixed mindset is like the default or defacto position for people? Like, do you think we all have a fixed mindset until we kind of make that proactive decision that we want have a growth mindset?
Ismail (05:02):
Uh, no, not necessarily. Right. There are people who naturally have a growth mindset and are able to shed those thoughts of limitations that a fixed mindset has on potential, let's say. But for most part, for the most part, I think it's a mixed bag for people. They may have a growth mindset in like certain areas of life, but then have a fixed mindset when it comes to others. Uh, so for example, let's take myself, right, I have, I definitely have a growth mindset when it comes to my ability to take on larger, bigger roles at work. But then I also have a fixed mindset, you know, when it comes to my ability to ever become a scratch golfer, which is a dream, right? And I feel like it slowly slips away every weekend, <laugh>. But you know, in that case I have that, that sort of mix of both.
Ismail (05:48):
I, I totally hear you on the scratch golfer, uh, dream. I, I really do.
Sameer (05:53):
Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's, it's not gonna happen for you.
Ismail (05:56):
Fair enough. I'm okay with that. I think I'm okay with that at this point. Um, dare to dream though. So, yeah, I mean, so there's an interesting point that you really bring up there. And like, person's mindset is like this mosaic of all their different perceptions and realities, and, you know, so much of a person's mindset or approach to new things has to do with their experiences and, you know, experiences of the experiences they've had as a kid or, uh, young adults or just growing up in general. Um, so why don't we get to the really juicy stuff and talk about the flip side of this, which would be, uh, a growth mindset. So what do you, what do you, what are considered the, the characteristics of a growth mindset?
Sameer (06:41):
Yeah, yeah. So growth mindset, you know, basically is the belief that a person has, uh, abilities, talents, and intelligence, and can be developed through hard work, right? Or through learning, through persisting through challenges. So people with a growth mindset, they're a lot more likely to take on a new challenge or see a new challenge as an opportunity. And they're typically more resilient when facing obstacles and setbacks. They're really motivated to try to keep trying until they succeed. So that, that, those are some of like, kind of those key distinctions between the fix and the growth mindsets is, is that resiliency I think is a really big part of it.
Ismail (07:23):
One thing that I really picked up on right away, just, um, you know, as you were saying that is how applying critical EQ skills could be really advantageous to achieving that kind of holistic growth mindset. Like just thinking about, say, self-awareness, right? The foundational skill, self-awareness as just as an example, and a person having that ability to recognize that, let's just say like in the face of some insane setback or failure, like an urgent need to identify their own state, their own emotional state at that moment, and being able to separate the facts versus a knee-jerk reaction, which we know is, is most undoubtedly gonna happen. And it's gonna be from a perspective of like a negativity or a defeatist.
Sameer (08:09):
Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. But you're jumping the gun. So, all right, hold that thought because in our next segment, that's what we're gonna talk about, right? The application of these core EQ skills that we've talked about in our previous episodes, and how those fit in to cultivate and succeed really within a growth mindset. So shall we jump ahead to that?
Ismail (08:29):
Sounds awesome.
Ismail (08:35):
Hey, if you've enjoyed the show so far or found some helpful information, check the show notes where you can join our mailing list, get additional EQ tips and tricks, and also stay up to date on upcoming topics and events.
Ismail (08:51):
All right. So I'd say we've clearly defined what growth mindset is. So I mean, just based on what you've talked about and, you know, our collective knowledge, why don't we go through some of the key characteristics, that kind of encompass what a growth mindset is? So some of the things that I heard you say were, or allude to at least, were embracing challenges as learning opportunities. Yes. I also heard you talk about resilience or persistence, and that's like the ability, you know, we're talking about staying motivated, even after experiencing some terrible setback or, or obstacle along the way in a project. And then there's having the will to put in the hard work to be successful. I think this one was a really interesting one from my perspective. It's understanding like, you know, how crucial just hard work is to achieving success, and like that's success in air quotes, right? Not just, it's not just some walk in the park, uh, by opening your mind. It's really, you know, you gotta put in, put in the effort mm-hmm.
Sameer (09:58):
<affirmative>. Yeah.
Ismail (09:58):
And then, you know, someone who allows themselves to learn from failure, I think is key. We've talked about in previous, one of our previous episodes about feedbacks, like being able to take it in as well. Sure. But being able to learn from that, being able to pivot, adjust, and frankly just decide to move forward is a key for growth mindset as well.
Sameer (10:21):
And Ismail, I think another important one, that folks with a growth mindset focus on the process, right? They learn along the way rather than just focusing on the result. That's another one that that's really important, is focusing on process.
Ismail (10:36):
Yes. I mean, I, I think that is a really good one. And so overall, we see people with a growth mindset, and they tend to have a more positive attitude toward, toward growth and learning and, and they're just willing to work hard to achieve their goals.
Sameer (10:51):
Yeah. Honestly, I mean, I'd hire anyone with those qualities, right? Someone who has a positive attitude, they want to grow, they wanna learn, um, you know, they're willing to work hard. So, uh, you know, the ideal team member is kind of what you're describing in so many ways, right? Having people on our teams that have that type of mindset, because inevitably any business goal that we have will be met with challenges, it will be met with setbacks. And so you need a team that prioritizes this growth mindset.
Ismail (11:18):
Just in, in light of the, the topic that we love talking about. There's a critical connection to be made here, right? So to make strides and feel successful, particularly in the workplace, with this coveted growth mindset, individuals really need to pair that with more emotional intelligence.
Sameer (11:40):
Okay. And do you think that you can have one but then not have the other?
Ismail (11:45):
Sure, sure you can. So you see it in team members and leaders all the time, right? They are relentless in their mission to hit their goals, their targets. They clear roadblocks like they are Mack trucks, and they work crazy hard. But then, there's this other side, like due to a lack of EQ skills, they alienate their team or end up using toxic techniques. And so while they may clear roadblocks and be that like lightning in a bottle, they do it in a way that damages others.
Sameer (12:17):
Definitely been there. So, yeah, absolutely. I a hundred percent agree. Um, you know, that's in the workplace, which you're describing, I'm just thinking about, even in other walks of life, like you look at an artist or sports figure, we've all heard about or seen who go to like these extreme lengths to perfect their crafts and they reach the pinnacle of their profession, but it often comes at a personal cost to them, right? So when we turn the focus to the workplace, we understand that the majority of business objectives are met through teamwork. So if you have a growth mindset and you are willing to do whatever it takes to meet the goals of the business, but you aren't able to leverage EQ skills to bring the rest of the team with you, then your ultimate goals for your business will likely fail.
Ismail (13:04):
So, Sameer, to even get more specific, let's look at just for examples sake, resilience and adaptability. And these are two components of the growth mindset. So keeping those in mind, let's then look at some of the EQ skills that leaders with a growth mindset would need to employ to be able to achieve said resilience and adaptability.
Sameer (13:27):
Okay. Yeah. No, and right away, the one that jumps out to me is self-awareness, right? Being able to look at a situation and understand your personal emotions, um, the emotions that you may have tied to a potential failure. You know, understanding that those fail, those emotions don't define one's ability to succeed eventually. And making that emotional distinction as super critical in order to be resilient or to adapt. Um, and then that leads us right into self-management, right? Managing your own personal emotions in such a way that it doesn't undermine the growth mindset, which you've established within yourself and also instilled in your team.
Ismail (14:09):
And I mean, openness. So that's another good one. Yeah. Like being ready to be able, we talked about this earlier, right? Being able to, to take feedback from others and adapt accordingly. Um, and then social awareness. So being able to understand that, you know, in order to regroup and reboot, um, say like a whole project or a project team after failure, the leader really needs to understand and be aware of kinda the emotions of the entire team, right? And then, I mean, I think one that really hits home for a lot of folks, or at least for myself and and yourself, I'm sure is empathy and, you know, particularly empathy towards like one's self or giving yourself some grace and space to learn from these mistakes and grow rather than punishing yourself.
Ismail (14:58):
Yeah. I mean, in the face of, of adversity being able to be resilient, adaptable, I can't really, uh, you know, stated enough how important empathy is. It's something that I think leaders as a whole really lack and really struggle with. Yeah. Is being able to just give yourself some grace in those moments. And we're always talking about empathizing with our teams, um, empathizing with other people's situations, but sometimes you have to supply some of that empathy for yourself.
Sameer (15:26):
Yeah. You know, I hear you.
Sameer (15:27):
Another one that I was thinking about, uh, is the impact of applying emotional intelligence and a growth mindset can have on innovation, right? Within an organization. Because businesses that are truly successful today, they're constantly innovating, they're creating new processes, new tools and products. They're trying to remain competitive. And I'm just thinking how critical, not only the growth mindset is to constantly looking to improve and adapt in the face of competition and market conditions, but then also there's this, uh, importance of having high EQ leaders that can influence change and cultivate buy-in and keep people motivated, right? So having those high EQ leaders driving in organization that put growth mindset at the forefront will create a real competitive advantage for businesses in the marketplace. It's not just a mantra or something that we put on a poster on a wall anymore. We're talking about having leaders and that are really, you know, cultivating a true growth mindset and driving it. And that to me, um, is such a critical piece for companies and businesses right now in this, in this day and age where, you know, we need to be constantly innovating.
Ismail (16:42):
Sure. I mean, that's a great point. And I'd say for me, I think about it from the perspective of learning and development, right? So for example, I teach, uh, an EQ training course. I'm certified in EQ training. And in this space, like if, if the students really wanna gain as much knowledge as possible, if they wanna take advantage of spending that time and, and taking this course, it's really imperative that they come to the course with a growth mindset. And this way they'll, they'll more easily learn and absorb, um, how to apply those skills in, in these situations and compliment their individual growth and, and impact in, in a company or any situation for that matter, right? I find, I, I find that when I, I can really tell the difference between students who are there, who are, have genuine curiosity, genuinely are open to change, purely from a positive point of view, and you can see them just exponentially explode, uh, in terms of their abilities at the end of the course.
Sameer (17:43):
No, absolutely. Learning and development, just such a good use case for the growth mindset. And, and I completely agree with you there. So Ismail, I think we've driven the point home pretty good for our listeners, right? What we're saying here is that in order to work well in teams, particularly when you're leading a team, having both a growth mindset and high EQ are that killer combination that leaders need to optimize their impact. Um, having one and not the other is leaving something on the table. But I'd really like to give our listeners some suggestions, um, today on how they can develop a growth mindset. I think we don't wanna take for granted that a growth mindset is just there for everyone. So let's give them some really good tips and tricks on how to develop that, that growth mindset if they're struggling to do so.
Ismail (18:28):
Yeah. Makes sense, man. Let's do that. I just wanna say that there's been, you know, quite a lot of research done that suggests people with a growth mindset are typically happier. And I would say, you know, that reason alone is enough that drive should, should drive people to develop a growth mindset and like personal happiness is enough of a motivator, in my opinion.
Sameer (18:54):
No, I absolutely agree. And, you know, this is one of those topics that has application in multiple areas of life. And, and as we're recognizing today, applicability in the area of leadership is really high because the emotional state or the mindset of the leader, it really sets the tone for the rest of the team right?
Ismail (19:11):
And so, for those who might be struggling to find a way to up their growth mindset game, one way that I found really useful when approaching, say, a certain challenge or goal is immediately being intentional about identifying your mindset about the work and how you approach work. Like ask yourself, do you focus on the outcome or do you give the rights to the journey it took you to achieve that particular task or goal?
Sameer (19:40):
Yeah, yeah. No, and the, the part of that upfront conversation, it needs to be an acknowledgement that the process to achieving a goal, it's truly a journey, right? It's filled with ups and downs. So preparing yourself for that mentality, uh, from the beginning is really going to increase the likelihood of maintaining a growth mindset as you take on a new challenge or a new goal.
Ismail (20:03):
You know, reminding yourself that the path to achievement is rarely linear. You're absolutely right about that smear. And then, you know, another hack, I would say for staying in, in the growth mindset is to find those defining moments in your life and just draw inspiration from them when facing a new challenge. Like for example, let's say for me, when I'm either starting a new role or taking on a huge project that I just, I'm just feel so overwhelmed about, I draw inspiration from the fact that, um, in my early twenties, I was young, I was naive, I was broke, but for some reason I still decided to move across the ocean, uh, to London. And I went, yeah, I went there with no job, I didn't have very much money. And really there was this, you know, underlying understanding that I had with my parents that if I fell flat, they would be willing to cover my flight home. Uh, and I was living in Canada at the time, and I would say like, that was enough for me to take the plunge. I was like, okay,
Sameer (21:08):
I'm gonna be, that was enough. That was all the reassurance he needed. Just like if I fall flat, I'll at least be able to get back home, <laugh>,
Ismail (21:14):
At least get back home. I'm not gonna be, I don't need to swim or anything like that, right? <laugh>. So, I mean, lemme tell you what happened though, right? So I ended up finding an amazing job. I met some of the most amazing people, and I had some experiences that otherwise would not have happened. And I'm gonna cherish these forever and, you know, probably draw inspiration for them for the rest of my life. I mean, I can't even describe to you how scary that experience was, but also like how much I grew as a person from that experience. I mean, I, I, it's just, it's immeasurable, right? So I, I think about that and if I overcame that type of challenge, it's like moving to London as a young man, I am certain, I know unequivocally that I can overcome this particular challenge, whatever's in front of me.
Sameer (22:05):
Yeah, that's so interesting. And I'm thinking about my own life and like those kind of defining moments, you know, when I face a new challenge, I think about like the bar exam. It's something that, you know, I took the bar exam back in the day and I remember studying so hard for that exam. I sacrificed my entire summer, you know, and I really needed to pass. I did it. Um, and, but even today when I'm facing a tough challenge or you know, when, uh, when I need to really become disciplined, um, I think about the discipline that I developed to tackle a bar and how ultimately that led to success for me. So you're absolutely right, drawing from those experiences. And it allows you, uh, and gives you the ability to look at a challenge and through a different perspective, through a different lens, through a lens of winning. You know? And that's sometimes is all you need is just to get that sensation that you're gonna win. You just have to put in the work.
Ismail (23:00):
Yeah. And I mean, personally, I'd much rather move to London with no money and no job than take the bar exam. Cause it sounds really hard
Ismail (23:10):
And, and I'm sure you sacrifice a lot, but look, I think we all have life experiences no matter how small or big, where we overcame adversity and challenges. And I think really tapping into those lessons learned really can be a powerful tool that everyone can use.
Sameer (23:30):
Absolutely. And, and you said it best. We all have something, whether it's, uh, big or small, it's all relative, right? But being able to draw from those experiences is so critical.
Ismail (23:39):
You bet. And so this next one that comes to mind, I think is probably the toughest one to achieve. But it's also probably the most important one. And you really need to be kind to yourself. So even people with the, with like the highest eq, um, they can empathize with ease, I would say. They often struggle to give themselves some grace and empathy, and we talked about this earlier, and like empathy for oneself is such a powerful tool as well. And people with their growth mindset, they need to learn to be kind to themselves and avoid this negative self-talk when facing a point of failure. It needs to be a point of, uh, a learning for them, in my opinion,
Sameer (24:21):
Being kind to yourself, especially when getting feedback. You know, one other tip we're sharing is a phrase we often hear, you know, we hear the phrase embrace the power of yet right? When the negative self-talk kicks in, we've all experienced right? Like tagging the word yet to it, it really helps frame the conversation different.
Ismail (24:41):
Yeah. Like, Sameer can't hit his driver straight to to save his life
Sameer (24:45):
Yet, yet. Exactly. Yes.
Ismail (24:48):
<laugh>, yes. I mean, just adding that small word yet it can take something that you view as a failure and turn it into a goal. And it adds this aspirational aspect that is so critical.
Sameer (25:01):
All right, so we went pretty deep on the topic of growth mindset, and I think there's a lot more that we could talk about in this subject. And we, we will, we definitely plan to do that in future episodes. But today we explained the growth mindset, contrasted it with its evil counterpart, right? Which is the fixed mindset.
Ismail (25:17):
Yeah. We also discussed how, particularly in the workplace, leveraging emotional intelligence to complement a growth mindset is frankly a powerful formula for success. And I mean, you also have some, uh, practical ways you can start to develop a growth mindset that I think you can just tuck into your back pocket for now.
Sameer (25:36):
Yeah. Yeah. So I think that about covers it for us today.
Ismail (25:40):
I think it does.
Sameer (25:45):
And that's it. Thanks for listening. This show really wouldn't be possible without you. If you're a fan of the show, please take a look at the show notes where you can find more information about the podcast and information that can support you, as well as info on how you can support us.
Ismail (25:58):
Thanks Sameer. And, and thanks to everyone listening until our next episode. Remember the famous words of fictional character Captain Jacks perrow. The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem.