Episode 5: Embrace the Challenge: Empowering Leaders with Resilience
In this episode of the Emotional Intelli-Gents Podcast we dive into the concept of resilience in the workplace. The podcast will highlight how emotionally intelligent leaders can use their elevated EQ skills to become more resilient, and build resilient teams. Lastly, for those struggling to tap into their inner-resilience, EP05 offers some strategies on how all of us can become more resilient.
Resilience may seem like an abstract term, but its definition is fairly concrete. Resilience is a process of adapting to challenging situations through mental, emotional, behavioral flexibility, and adjusting your expectations from what you expected to happen to what is happening. High EQ leaders are able to leverage their emotional intelligence skills to become more resilient leaders, and utilize EQ to teach your teams how to be resilient in the face of adversity. Through self-management, empathy, openness, and relationship management, leaders can build a resilient culture on their teams. This episode will go deeper to help you understand how exactly these fundamental EQ principals can be applied to build resilience.
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Episode 05 Transcript
Ismail (00:00):
If you're able to identify like the cycle or pattern of negative thoughts or emotions that you go through in a particular situation, or just in general, you actually have an opportunity to challenge those particular emotions or thoughts.
Musical Intro (00:20):
1, 2, 3, 4.
Sameer (00:20):
Welcome to the Emotional Intelligence Podcast. A podcast diving into how emotional intelligence can be unleashed to turn great people into great leaders. And now your hosts, Ismail and Sameer.
Ismail (00:34):
Hello and welcome again to the Emotional Intelligence Podcast where we help current and aspiring leaders level up their ability to achieve greatness in the workplace. I'm Ismail.
Sameer (00:45):
And, hello, I'm Sameer.
Ismail (00:47):
So I think we can all agree that at one point in our careers, in our lives, we've been knocked down and, and I mean that metaphorically speaking, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, and frankly, it's not a pleasant experience. And I think what really comes into play here is the notion of resilience. Yeah. And being able to bounce back and not have it have such a drastic impact on your li life. And one thing that I can tell you for sure, like I've experienced it and my resilience in those situations, I've turned into a superpower. Wow. It could be huge, huge dividends for yourself and for your team.
Sameer (01:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And, you know, resilience, it's, it's such a crucial part of the emotional intelligence conversation. I dunno if you can really have a good conversation on emotional intelligence without really talking about being resilient and resilience, it casts like a pretty wide net, you know? And, and it can apply in so many different situations. I think today our focus, it's gonna be on you know, defining resilience. Sure. We'll talk about how people with, with good EQ or higher eq, they can be better suited to respond to situations with resilience. And then we'll talk about some strategies Right. On how you can become more resilient in your day-to-day.
Ismail (02:05):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I think that sounds great. I mean, it's a beautiful sunny day in, in Chicago here. Yep. And let's get to it. So, Sameer, why don't we first talk about what resilience is? I think it's an easy word to throw around. Yeah. But for me, there, there are two facets to it, right? And this is as it relates to the workplace. So number one is your ability to adapt and change and cope with all of these challenges and really just recover from setbacks that you face.
Sameer (02:39):
Sure.
Ismail (02:40):
And then there's a second aspect of it, which is, you know, your ability for, for you and your, your team's ability to stay calm under pressure. And let's talk about like, what are some of the common obstacles that you're gonna face when you're at work? So, if you're in the client services business, you have difficult clients, you have internal stakeholders, you got tight deadlines that people are working with, and just generally there's an overall demanding workplace. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, like those are to me, some of the common ones. Right. And then you have more complex ones or, or more intense ones. And one that I think we can all talk about here is what if you lose your job? Yeah. Or what happens if you, you know, you face a massive accounting error or you, you know, you knock down a website that you are working on with a little piece of code. Like these are some more complex ones.
Sameer (03:29):
Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like you're describing my last couple weeks at the office there, Ismail, <laugh>, <laugh>. But no, really, when you're facing these challenges, resilience, it, it can be the difference between sinking and swimming, you know, rising up, folding under the pressure of the adversity that you're facing. And I think that where resilience really helps us shine most is, as you mentioned, it helps us stay calm under pressure. Yeah. It lets you free your mind up so you can come up with good solutions, right. To like these really big problems that you're describing. And then last, but certainly not least, like the ability to bounce back, right. When we make a decision that may not have been ideal, which is kind of the nice way of saying you made a bad wrong decision, <laugh>. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But yeah, just a caveat, right? Being resilient, it does not mean you, you're not allowing yourself to feel upset.
Sameer (04:20):
I think that's one thing that I wanna make clear, that when you make a mistake or you're worry, you're worrying when you face certain adversity, that initial reaction to a challenge a lot of that is just kind of dictated by our natures, right? But it's also by our level of engagement with the problem or the issue. Cuz if you care a lot about something, when you face an obstacle, you're gonna have a reaction to that and you're gonna feel upset, and you have to kind of let yourself feel upset. But then developing that resilience so that you can really pull yourself out of those situations, you know, that's where that impact of resilience really shows up in it, and it saves you in those moments.
Ismail (05:02):
Sure. It's, it's almost like a, a muscle that you have to work out Yeah.
Sameer (05:06):
And strengthen. Yeah, absolutely.
Ismail (05:08):
I mean, I know that as partners here, we've talked almost exclusively about EQ in, in our previous episodes. Right? And one thing I want to kind of relate to here is that you can have resilience, but not even involve eq, right?
Sameer (05:24):
Yeah. Absolut absolutely
Ismail (05:25):
Not now. And not everyone can function in that matter. Meaning you're just, you're able to get up, get knocked down, get back up, get knocked down. Not everyone can, it's, it is like we're hard coded to kind of jump into the fetal position when we face a major setback. And I know, I mean, I've been in that situation where I'm just like covering all my vital organs because I'm in fear, right?
Sameer (05:49):
Yeah. Yeah.
Ismail (05:49):
But there's an interesting thing. I, you know, if you do add EQ to the mix leaders, managers, just people in general, they, it, it changes the ethos and DNA of how they function and how their teams function. And let me just give you an example here, right?
Sameer (06:07):
Sure.
Ismail (06:08):
So I am a huge proponent of people taking risks. I think it's a fantastic way of getting people outside of their comfort zones and allow them to grow. And the problem with doing that is you're obviously making more room for errors and setbacks to happen, right?
Sameer (06:28):
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Ismail (06:29):
But my approach is, I, I take those specific you know, outcomes, the negative outcomes, or the risky outcomes, and I try and flip 'em on their head, at least for my team, and turning them into opportunities. And I give my team a really safe place to make those mistakes. And when they do, it's, it's not an if, it's when they do. Sure. I, yeah. I talk about leaning into that opportunity and the how things could have been different rather than saying like, oh, you know what I see you're in the fetal position here, and we're just gonna jump over that. No, we gotta lean into that and take a look at how those things operate and why they happen. And my team knows this through and through. It's something that I bring up to them as regularly and often as possible. And this gives them an opportunity to make those mistakes and grow.
Sameer (07:18):
Hmm. Yeah. No, those are great points Ismail. And you know, when I look at resilience yeah, I can kind of think of it as similar to the concept of elasticity, right? Where you can take something like an object, like a rubber band, for example, bend it, fold it, you can stretch it out. But after all that trauma, all the stress that results from it, that ela that elastic it, it ends up enduring and then it finds its original sha e again, right? So sure. That's what resilience is. It's that ability to endure, you know, kind of weather through and then find your equilibrium state again. And then obviously the growth that comes from that, right? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So even if the experience seems utterly colossal in the moment, right? There is something to be gained from that. And so we've talked about in previous episodes the significance of businesses pushing the boundaries, right?
Sameer (08:10):
We need to stay competitive in the marketplace. It starts with people who have a willingness to initiate and take initiative and innovate. But when whenever you're innovating or taking initiative, there's unintended consequences, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, again, I was gonna say, failure is there, but <laugh> what you've taught me shift your mindset, right? Unintended consequences. But I think that because there's growth in those mistakes or those missteps, the unintended consequences and the adversity that comes from those things the resilience of your team and those moments is when you're truly trusted. Right? Right. And ultimately, through ultimately, you know, to reach those goals, at some point in the process, you're gonna need resilience. And that's why it's such a critical skill for success. And it's something that as we'll talk about later in the podcast, it's something that leaders not only need to possess resilience, but then have the ability to teach others to be resilient. And there's some very specific tools you can use to do that.
Ismail (09:12):
Sure. And I'm, I mean, I, I'm just trying to put myself in other people's shoes at the moment, right? And I wonder if they could be asking themselves like, Hey, have I ever been in a situation where I need to be resilient? And I think all we can use the example of the pandemic Yeah. And that shows, I think every person now has been touched with the need for resilience mm-hmm. <Affirmative> some sort of, it's, it's affected them in some sort of way that they've needed to draw on this skill. And if you look at that example in the workplace, how many people do, you know, went from sitting beside their partner or sitting beside their team working together collaboratively to only seeing them on a screen? Like
Sameer (10:00):
Yeah. Countless, I would say
Ismail (10:02):
<Laugh> total. Totally. I mean, and, and the, the interesting thing there is that people really need to know how to cope with those situations, how to pivot. And because going from having face-to-face conversations and then missing out on body language, facial expressions, if, if you don't have a camera, that's huge. Yeah. And there's just, like, right now, there's this, there's a significant increase in stress in the workplace today. And if you think about it, things are way more competitive. Sure. Right? you're being asked for, you're being asked for a lot, a lot more. And the pace is, I mean, out of this world, right? Yeah. There's so many ex expectations, and you need resilience to have your teams, your people, adapt, change, and then ultimately thrive. They can't be always sitting on their, their back foot. Sure. Right. Or on their back foot. And I've, I've inherited teams, I've built teams from scratch.
Ismail (11:01):
And the one thing that's unavoidably common in there is that there will be conflict, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And whe whether it be big or small, there, it's gonna be, there's gonna be conflict. And can you imagine that like every time there was a conflict, things just shut down because there was a disagreement. I mean, it, I, I think that whether you want it or not, people are practicing a level of resilience. And I think if you, I think people need to make it more common, set that as a tone in their organization, make it part of your culture that yes, we're gonna have problems, yes, we're gonna face adversity, but what we do here in this organization or in this team, is we bounce back, we work together, we work as a team, and we help each other.
Sameer (11:51):
Yeah. This will, well, absolutely. And you know, there's this notion out there that resilience, it's kinda like this abstract concept that if you have it, you'll know it. And if you don't, you kind of don't, and you don't even know what you're missing out on. Right? And, and I don't think that's quite fair, right? Resilience is pretty concrete in the sunset. It's, it's a process. It's you know, adapting to challenging situations through behavioral, mental, emotional, just flexibility, right? Adjusting expectations from what you expected to happen to what's actually happening, right? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, that flexibility piece is a really big part of the resilience conversation. Yeah. So I was working at this company where for three years, our teams, we were just killing ourselves. We were trying to develop this new technology, deploy it nationally for this huge multi-billion dollar client, right? And after three years of effort, our client suddenly announced that they were being acquired by another multi-billion dollar company.
Sameer (12:51):
And for those of you guys that are wondering, I'm talking about the T-Mobile acquisition of Sprint, and you know, we had no clue what was gonna happen next for our project, like our department. What was gonna happen, you know, with this nationwide rollout that we've been, you know, busting our tails on for the better part of three years, was it just going to suddenly end, right? So all the rumors started, stress levels were at an high. Like, people were wondering like, how long till we all lose our jobs, et cetera. You know, we've kind of seen those situations in the workplace, but it's in these critical moments, right? When the leaders, they need to be the ones that are maintaining the positive outlook. And so I was thinking about this, and I'm so grateful because when this whole situation was happening, our E V P who was local to our office, he stood up in front of everyone, you know, he addressed the merger head on, he gave us the facts on, you know, what's the possible impact on our project, what he knew at that moment.
Sameer (13:46):
Sure. But then he also said something that really just set a tone and change the perspective. He said, you know, how much work we're gonna get when these two massive wireless networks are working to integrate with each other? <Laugh>. And you kind of just saw like these like, you know, metaphorical light bulbs just popping up all over the office. And it was the perspective that we all needed to hear, right? We needed this leader to help us all stay calm in this stressful situation. And it was his ability to manage his own emotions, you know, be flexible, adjust expectations. And when he did so, it made all of us feel resilient, right? So that's the power, right? That's the power that resilient leaders have. Like their positivity, their perspectives, they resonate, right? And when leaders are resilient, I'm telling you the rest of the team, it, they will follow suit. And, and I've experienced that time and time again throughout my career.
Ismail (14:43):
I mean, that's a great example of a, of a how contagious a good leader can be. Yeah. And I mean, we're talking about, we're talking about resilience here and that resilience kind of permeated through the team, but imagine the other characteristics that also permeate through the team from leaders like that, right? Sure. Yeah. And I mean, talking about mergers and things like that, that's really, I think it's a prime example. Perfect example where resilience comes into play, right? But like there's other situations as well. And you know, one comes to mind personally, it's more like one-on-one, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I would say this is an opportunity, you talked about this like about managing someone this EVP, like managing their own emotions. Sure. It's self-regulation, right? Yeah. It's like you gotta take a deep breath, take a moment, take stock of what's going on.
Ismail (15:35):
And I'd say like one of my crowning moments of, we'll say resilience and, and how it showed first in my career was when I was butting heads with a peer of mine, right? So we are, we're peers or we need to work together. We, we may not be on the same team, but we're really just kind of, we were not seeing eye to eye at all. Okay. Both good people, both super smart both like, you know, happy-go-lucky people, but just we were not seeing eye to eye out, right? Yeah. And I had to take a step back. I had to really pause and say like, what's going on here? Like, what are this per, what, what's, what, what is this person's motivations? Is there any, is there any ill intent present? Are they, I mean, more often than not, there's no ill intent.
Ismail (16:25):
No one, no one is for the most part is generally malicious. It's like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just disagree with this person, just cuz I don't like them. Yeah. Very, very, very rare, right? Sure. And, and what I ended up doing was, it was just such a cliche, and it sounds kind of simple, but it's like, Hey, do you wanna go for a coffee? And we went for a coffee. I had nothing to lose at that point. Like, nothing was working. And we just talked about it. I talked about what was going on and how that made me feel. The experiences that I was going through on my side what I needed, like why I was acting, why I was acting the certain way, you know, what I was trying to accomplish. And really at the end of the day, like this person was just kind of staring at me.
Ismail (17:11):
And I think they were maybe abound by my transparency, but yeah. Yeah. It just came down the way they explained it, it just came down to seriously just a combination of misunderstandings and different objectives, right? And once we learned each other's motivations and objectives, we were like, this optimism came out from, for us, that we were, that wouldn't have been present otherwise. And we ended up being like a team. We were helping each other out. Sometimes it would be That's great. Yeah. Give and take. Like they would help me. I would help them. And at the end of the day, like we ended up being this like, dynamic duo that if I didn't take a step back and think about the way, you know, earlier on in the problem, if I just like freaked out, went to my manager or whatever probably would've gotten worse, but I didn't, I just took, I
Sameer (17:59):
Took a breath. Yeah. No, Ima that's a great example of kind of taking that emotion of resilience, tapping into that, but then also that core EQ skill of self-awareness and self-management and bringing it all together. Another time where I think resilience is, is so critical is in the face of failure, right? Or rejection. It's kind of that, that low point that you reach when you've failed or been rejected or you missed out on some sort of opportunity and, you know emotionally processing the situation then being able to find that alternate path and then understanding that the growth comes from going through these motions and then ultimately pivoting to a different outcome. That's really where the crux of resilience comes in, right? And as leaders, I think we often need to go through these motions very quickly. I think that is the critical difference.
Sameer (18:53):
It's not that leaders don't feel the disappointment, but they have to move on from it faster than anybody else within their team. Because as you know, the, the old adage goes, right, the show must go on. Right? <laugh>, and I've been <laugh> I've had countless times in my career where I've had to pivot to a new strategy because the original strategy failed, right? Sure. And one part of that process, and you get better and better at this over time, yes. With experience as a leader, is the speed at which you process the emotions that come from a failure or a rejection. So early in my career, rejections failures, they were immediately met with the emotions of, you know, self-doubt, negativity. Yes. I was, you know, my imposter syndrome would just reach its pinnacle, you know, in those moments mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, and it would be a lot of like self-blame.
Sameer (19:48):
And I think that as I've progressed in these leadership roles, I still feel the disappointment, I feel distress, but I think I've found some perspectives that help me now quickly sort of emotionally process situations. And a lot of that is just confidence that I've developed about my abilities over the years. But as leaders, we need to recognize that in the face of a failure or rejection, our teams are feeling a lot of these negative emotions as they try to process it. So we might be able to overcome it quickly and we have the confidence to move on, but our teams may not. So, you know, a resilient leaders value add in these situations, it really is to pick their team up and they have to be proactive right? About reminding the team that the failure, it, it wasn't caused by them. Right. Bringing perspective into a situation. Like an example, let's say that we didn't get a certain account that we, that the sales team was working on, right? Sure. So we didn't get this account. It wasn't because of your pitch, that was good, you crushed it. Right? But they just went another direction because the product ultimately didn't have one feature that our competitors had. And that's something that we all should have addressed, addressed. And helping your team put things in that correct perspective, that's part of being a resilient leader too.
Ismail (21:12):
Right? Right. You know, as you were kinda going through those through the example of rejection I was thinking I do this lot, again, perhaps a cliche, but when a team member comes to me with something that's happened, I'm not gonna say necessarily a rejection, but a problem. They're upset someone did something to them that rubbed them the wrong way. My initial reaction is like, okay, what did we learn from that? Like, there's, let's turn it this into a learning opportunity. So yeah, you learned that that person acts this way and talks like that in this tone. Next time you're prepared for that. I feel like that there's a, there's a level of resilience in that too. Like Yeah. It's, it's almost like a shield. Like it bounces off you next time. Yeah. And I feel like this is where the work, working out that particular skill, so the skill of resilience, that muscle, trying to practice it. And I was just thinking about, you know, how many times I do that and it's actually now just a reflex for me. Right? Huh. Yeah. So, so we, I, I'm very quick to jump to, let's flip this on its head for a moment. And I don't even think about it. So I, I mean, I thought that was really fascinating
Sameer (22:29):
That No, that's really cool. That's really cool.
Ismail (22:31):
And I think it's also just one more thing is it's worth mentioning that in these times there's workloads, time management issues, people are drowning and stress during all of these problems that you discussed. Like yeah, merger, well, lost accounts, all of these things. And it's really, really important is take a moment and figure out how you can be resilient in those moments.
Sameer (22:58):
Yeah, definitely. All right. Ismail. We went pretty in depth on the meaning of resilience. Let's get into how our core EQ skills can help you and your teams become more resilient. How about that?
Ismail (23:12):
Love it. Let's do it. Hey, if you've enjoyed the show so far or found some helpful information, check the show notes where you can join our mailing list, get additional EQ tips and tricks, and also stay up to date on upcoming topics and events.
Sameer (23:33):
So, Ismail, it's important to note, I think that you don't need to have high EQ or very elevated emotional intelligence to have resilience. So resilience, it can stand alone. But to be a strong leader, making an effort to create a culture of resilience I think to do that EQ skills, they can really be leaned on to help, right? A leader who possesses those foundational core competencies that we've talked about, like self-awareness and self-management and social awareness and relationship management, and the ability to empathize. They are gonna be much better positioned to be resilient and then teach resilience and then lead a resilient team.
Ismail (24:19):
I agree a hundred percent. And so why don't we dig into that a little bit, right? So we have talked a lot about the foundations of eq, but why don't we talk about how those skills, they realistically, how they realistically apply to resilience. Sure. And so let's take self-awareness for example, right? So if you're able to identify like the cycle or pattern of negative thoughts or emotions that you go through in a particular situation, or just in general, you actually have an opportunity to challenge those particular emotions or thoughts. Mm. Yeah. And so example, I will admit that even though our last, I think, you know one of our episodes was feedback. I did not take feedback very well. I took it very personally, really? Yeah. I used to take, I took offense to it became really ad defensive, sorry. It became really defensive. And frankly, I, I'd mostly questioned my own abilities and performance, and that's what made me so defensive about it. But it's
Sameer (25:27):
Really to, that took you to that lonely place.
Ismail (25:29):
It is, it's a really, really lonely place. But once I was able to just kind of stop and clearly understand what I was doing to myself it, it changed the game, right? It allowed me to challenge those emotions out loud. And I'm talking about really, like, I would ask myself, talk to myself about the emotions that I was feeling. Why was I feeling them? What did that really, what did that person mean when they said you could have done this better or you could have done this differently? What, what did they mean by it? And I would also think about what it did to trigger me. And this to me is like my intro into self-awareness. I don't think I knew what it was at the time. Well, I can tell you, I didn't know what it was at the time, but once you start answering questions like that, but how you're feeling, why you're feeling that way, it really, and you incorporate tho that into your belief system, it is you're taking a new journey and it's a different fork in
Sameer (26:33):
The road. No, definitely Ismail, I can appreciate that, especially asking yourself what in particular is triggering me, and then stopping and asking yourself and identifying those things. It, it's really speeds up the process to overcoming emotions and challenges and that negative self-talk, but taking that same approach also when dealing with your team too, right? Trying to understand very quickly what is their emotional state during a stressful time. And then, you know, em employing that empathy that we talked about, right? Em empathizing with their perspective regarding the adversity that you're currently facing, right? In, in previous episodes we talked about being socially aware. We talked about meeting others in a space where they feel safe and comfortable to have those discussions. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And I think it's so important that in these stressful moments that leaders, they empathize and help their team shift their perspective.
Sameer (27:32):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> you know, I remember my first job as an attorney, right? I felt way outta my league. I was dealing with this really tough negotiation. It was this really seasoned attorney, and I just felt like I wasn't being aggressive enough. I wasn't, and to be honest, I was getting killed by this guy. Right? Right. I was so down on myself. All the self-doubt filled me to the brim. Right. <laugh>, I'm, I'm like, why am I struggling to scream and drop curse words and just <laugh> get my way? Because like, I felt like that's what I needed to do to get the win. Cuz that's what this guy was doing to me, and it was working. Right. Right. And I'll never forget my brother-in-law, who's also an attorney, he's a more senior attorney. He lives in New Jersey. He called me and he told me, he's like, listen man, I get how you feel.
Sameer (28:20):
So right away he empathized with me. Yeah. He's like, I've been there. Right. But I'm telling you, the best way to get your way is to be yourself. If you get your way by being nice, then be nice. Right? If you get your way by being a jerk, then be a jerk. But if you aren't a jerk and then you're faking it, like you're a jerk, that ain't gonna get you anywhere. So first of all, hands down, it was some of the best advice I ever got right there. And I've carried that with me into every single role I've been in since I've even left the legal profession. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> the, you know, the traditional legal profession. But he understood that I needed a change in perspective in a way that would resonate with me. And he delivered that right. In a really big way. And that was a resilient leader teaching me how to be resilient.
Ismail (29:11):
That's fantastic. That is a really, I did not know that story. Yeah. And I really like that. I would, I would akin that to something like I always tell people is speak the truth because the truth is the easiest thing to remember. Yeah. And it's, it's a different example than yours because you're talking about like just being yourself, and I'm talking about like telling the truth, but like, if you tell the truth over and o over again, it will sound the same. Meaning you don't have to remember like, what lie did I say at that time? <Laugh>, why, how did I word it this time? Says it's the truth, right? Yeah. No matter what way you say it, it's the same. But you know, what's really interesting about that situation that you were in is clearly you seemed very open to taking feedback. You were open to trying something necessarily that you weren't ready for or weren't expecting.
Sameer (30:06):
Yeah. I mean, when you reach that kind of rock bottom state, <laugh> Yeah. You're definitely open up. You're more
Ismail (30:12):
Open. Yeah. <laugh>, and I know we talked about flexibility earlier, but one of the things that I think is really important about resilience is I think you really have to be open to trying new things. You have to be open to learning and growing when you face a setback, rather than, you know, just bashing your head against it and trying to plow through it. There are, there are lessons to be learned in every set, setback in every situation. And if you are if you are open, it is actually like a really interesting coping mechanism to say like, okay, hey what, what that, what, what did I see in that issue in that situation that was something that I might wanna change or try again, or not try? I feel like it's a, it's an opportunity to cope with that particular setback.
Sameer (31:06):
Yeah. That's a really good way of looking
Ismail (31:07):
At it. Yeah. And, and I think I think what I would consider my, the greatest success of my career, I think it stemmed, no, not, I think it stemmed from my biggest failure. So I was consulting mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, and I was up against this, like really, really, I, I guess, you know, for you as, as a se seasoned lawyer. But I was up against really seasoned marketing executive. Okay. And they were, they were just really pushing back in ways that I didn't understand at the time. And I mean, I'll make a long story short, but they made me feel so small. They made me feel just like I didn't know anything. And mm-hmm. I, I would say, I would say I, it's the first time I ever failed, like, consider it like, you know, I went out, set myself a goal objective.
Ismail (32:05):
I had a goal, I had an objective, and I did not meet that first time I was in my twenties. And I took it really hard. Like I took it like, this is the end of my career. I, I don't think I'll ever be able to, to do this again. Let me just go sling coffee at Starbucks now. Yeah. And that's how I felt. And I had some mentors and some friends kind of talk me through the situation and they chuckled. They actually asked me, they said this feels like the first time you've ever experienced this. And I'm like, yeah, but what is it that I'm experiencing? Yeah. And they were the ones who explained to, to me like, that's just a failure. That's a setback. That's, that's a just a, a bump in the road that you're feeling.
Sameer (32:45):
This is, this is called adversity, my friend
Sameer (32:47):
Yeah. This is welcome.
Ismail (32:48):
Exactly. It's not the, this might be the first time that you're experiencing this, but it certainly is not the last time. Yeah. And to me, when, when they said that and they were there for me, supporting me, giving me advice that was when, and I really accepted, like when I accepted what had happened,
Ismail (33:08):
It changed the game for me. Yeah. It, it completely, I was actually more open to making mistakes in the sense of like, oh, hey, I was trying to do this and it didn't work. I was more open to doing that. And because I was open to doing that I was, I was, I just, I succeeded more. I, because I was trying more. Right. I was trying different things. And I always use the metaphor that's like a golf swing. So the harder you try and hit the ball you know, you're with your driver, the worse your shot. But the minute that you just kind of stop thinking about it and you're like, yeah, hey, that's a beautiful day. Oh, I'm up. Take your shot. It's beautiful. It's like straight down the fairway, you know, that perfect sound off your driver. That is what I, I consider that particular failure allowing me to do.
Sameer (33:55):
Yeah. No, right down the fairway. It happens to me about once a month <laugh> <laugh>. But no, I think one of the things that's so cool about what you brought up was like your peers kind of picking you up. You know, I have, I have been blessed, really. I have peers. I got a boss, I got a team of employees that like I personally can truly lean on in those difficult moments. Right. And understanding that having all of those people in my corner during those stressful times, it's definitely not a given. It's certainly not a right. Right? Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, it's something that like I had to personally work really hard to earn. Right. And I earned it. Yes. By managing all of those relationships with a ton of care, right. Knowing that their emotions towards me, they are a reflection of all of those different interactions that I've had with them over time and how I made them feel.
Sameer (34:49):
So if you're a leader who feels insulated by the support of others up and down the chain of command, then, then you're really set up to win. Right. I, that's, I personally do believe that. And so your ability to leverage your emotional intelligence to build strong relationships, it's a critical piece of, or a factor in your ability to be resilient when facing adversity because you don't feel alone. Right. I can call up anyone in my company in a moment of need because I've put in the time, I've built up the equity with these people over time. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, it was genuine. Right? It, but it was deliberate. I, I, I didn't do it because I was like, oh, I'm gonna help them so that they can help me someday in return. But also it was deliberate in the sunset. Like I wanted to have, have genuine, positive, kind interactions with my peers. Right. and so I'm always prioritizing building those strong relationships and trying to form those key allies across the business, because those are the people that are gonna pick you up when you're down. Those are the folks that are gonna be sort of your support system, like how your peers were in that moment for you and taught you so much.
Ismail (35:59):
Right. You know, I, I feel like in those situations, that was kinda what you were talking about earlier. You were you Right. You were just being you. Yeah. You know, and you weren't trying to fake anything. And like that's super pure, I would say. And so Sameer, you know, I know you and I have exercised a ton of resilience over, over the years that we've known each other. Sure. Yeah. I'm really glad that we had an opportunity to share this information with folks. And I really hope that you guys enjoy this episode.
Sameer (36:33):
Yeah, for sure. I think we did a great job explaining resilience, which on its own is a word that everyone kind of thinks they understand and know, but sometimes a deeper discussion on it could help. Right. It definitely has helped me today. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And then just how we talked about some tips and tricks to being more resilient and how to not just be a resilient leader, but then also develop a culture of resilience within your team and teach them how to be resilient.
Ismail (37:04):
And that's it. Thanks so much for listening. This show really wouldn't be possible without you. And if you're a fan of the show, please take a look at the show notes where you can find more information about the podcast and information about how we can support you and you can support us.
Sameer (37:19):
Thanks. Ismail and thanks to everyone for listening. Until our next episode. Here's a quote from former Facebook, COO Sheryl Sandberg. Resilience is the strength and speed of our response to adversity, and we can build it. It isn't about having a backbone, it's about strengthening the muscles around our backbone.